Band Debate: Lula and Flávio’s Slip-Ups, the Viral Moments and What Fact-Checkers Found

The first runoff debate between Lula (PT) and Flávio Bolsonaro (PL), hosted by Band on Sunday (18), a week before the October 25 vote, was marked by tension, an exchange of corruption accusations and moments that went viral online. Fact-checking organizations found false, imprecise or context-free claims from both candidates.

How the debate went

Moderated by journalists Adriana Araújo and Eduardo Oinegue, the debate had three segments. On three occasions tension rose and the moderators had to step in. In one of them, Flávio walked around the studio and ended up behind Lula, who complained to the journalists. During closing remarks, Adriana interrupted Lula to ask Flávio to stand still while the president spoke. According to Ric.com.br’s coverage, only one right of reply was granted, to Flávio, in the first segment.

Corruption accusations dominated the confrontation. Flávio brought up investigations into Lula’s son and the INSS scandal and cited an interview given to CNN the night before by lobbyist Roberta Luchsinger. Lula fired back with suspicions about financing linked to the senator, including money from banker Daniel Vorcaro, and criticized the pandemic response under Jair Bolsonaro’s government, according to Terra and Ric.com.br. For analyst Yuri Sanches, of AtlasIntel, the debate was “chaotic,” especially in the first segment, and Flávio stood out more than the Workers’ Party candidate.

The moments that went viral

• “Even your father”: in the first segment, Flávio said most people jailed in Brazil voted for Lula. The president replied that he wanted everyone to vote for him and joked that Flávio’s father, former president Jair Bolsonaro, could do so too, because he knows his son.
• “There’s Bolsonaro inside Lula”: answering a question on health, Flávio made a mea culpa, admitting the area did not have its best results under Jair Bolsonaro’s government. He then joked that Lula was vaccinated against Covid-19 under that government and claimed Jair Bolsonaro bought vaccines. We did not find, in the fact-checks consulted, a specific analysis of that claim.
• “Brazil is over”: in his closing remarks, Lula got tangled up while talking about a possible fourth term. He said the “lesa-pátria” (betrayal of the country) will end and that, in a fourth term, “we will say: Brazil is over,” adding that the country will be big and developed. In isolation, the phrase sounded as if he were saying the country would end. In the full passage, he was talking about the end of what he called the “lesa-pátria.” The moderators cut him off (“time, candidate”) while he was finishing the sentence.
• Barbs: during the discussion on spending cuts, Lula called Flávio a “malandro carioca” (a Rio smooth-talker). At another point, Flávio asked for respect after being interrupted by the president.

What the fact-checks found

The debate was checked by Aos Fatos, Agência Lupa, Estadão Verifica, Folha de S.Paulo and Ranking dos Políticos. They found problems in the statements of both candidates.

Flávio Bolsonaro’s statements

• R$ 7 billion on trips by Lula and Janja: false. According to Lupa, Folha and Aos Fatos, the figure matches the travel expenses of the entire federal government between 2023 and 2025.
• 73% of prisoners voted for Lula: distorted information, according to Aos Fatos.
• Lula went to court to bring back the “saidinha” (temporary prison leave): false, according to Lupa. Estadão Verifica rated it misleading: there is no record of such a lawsuit, and the electoral court barred an ad from Flávio’s ticket linking a Lula remark to crimes committed during temporary leave.
• Crime has “exploded” in Brazil: false, according to Aos Fatos.
• Convicts from the Mensalão scandal are in Lula’s government: false, according to Aos Fatos.
• The number of firearms and ammunition authorized under Bolsonaro “does not exist”: false, according to Ranking dos Políticos.
• R$ 600 Bolsa Família under Bolsonaro: exaggerated, since the amount was temporary, according to Ranking dos Políticos.

Lula’s statements

• GDP growth: the president got figures wrong, according to Estadão Verifica.
• Inherited deficit: Lula said the government before his left a 2.8% deficit when he took office. Lupa rated it false.
• Ammunition: he said 1.1 billion rounds were authorized under Bolsonaro. Ranking dos Políticos cited 994 million, based on data from the Sou da Paz Institute.
• Bolsa Família: he was wrong to say the adjustment “is law,” according to Ranking dos Políticos.
• R$ 134 million from Vorcaro: Lula said Flávio “took” that amount. Folha concluded the claim needs context: Flávio asked the banker directly for the money, but only part was paid, at least R$ 60 million.

What each side got right

• Lula: said Flávio made 43 misleading statements about the Banco Master case, based on a survey by Aos Fatos. Estadão Verifica rated the claim as true.
• Lula: said Flávio supports privatizing 95% of state-owned companies. Estadão Verifica confirmed he said so at a BTG Pactual event.
• Flávio: according to Ranking dos Políticos, which checked 76 claims in total, 29 were Flávio’s: 3 false (10.3%), 13 imprecise (44.8%) and 13 true (44.8%).

The proposals that came up

• Lula: said he intends to expand the federal government’s role against organized crime and create a Ministry of Public Security. He also proposed opening the confidentiality of both families’ records, according to 93 Notícias.
• Flávio: talked about creating a Ministry of Prosperity and promised to freeze debts for six months, according to Jornal Razão.

According to Terra’s analysis, proposals took a back seat to the exchange of accusations. The runoff is on Sunday (25).

Information from Aos Fatos, Agência Lupa, Estadão Verifica (via Terra), Folha de S.Paulo (via Rio Times), Ranking dos Políticos, Ric.com.br, Terra, Jornal Razão, 93 Notícias, Blog do BG and Gazeta Brasil.